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Re: tO linkage

Posted by greg rizzo on January 11, 2020, at 9:48:19

In reply to Re: TO UNDOPAMINERGIC, posted by linkadge on January 10, 2020, at 19:43:32

To linkage-thanks so much for your message. You have no idea how much your kind words mean to me.
Hope I can call you friend.
Argueably, I probably do more research on depression remission than most. Apologize in advance for the length of this post as I would like to run everything by you & possibly work together,
First of all, we all know stomach acic is the main culprit preventing nardil to reach the intestinal tract. To try to avoid this from happening I encase the 75 mg of nardil I take into size 0 enteric cellulose capsules (Amazon source).
Secondly is has been reported that Bioperine aids in the absorbtion of nutients and medications, so take that (Amazon). thirdly, since stomach acid seems to be the culprit, I take an ant-acid before taking the encapsulated nardil tablets. For now simply use Rolaids.
About every 2nn or 3rd day I take Provigil. The depression immediately disappears. I don't want to take it every day in order to prevent tolerance build up.
If these methods fail to work my next step would be to coat the nardil tablets in carnuba wax. This was the coating on thr'old nardil.' Has a boiling point of 80 degrees I believe so heat the wax, put in the nardil, let cool.
Nearly all of these ingredients I use are very inexpensive except for the provigil. If you are interested contact me privately (glrizzz@aol) and I can provide you with a non-script very cheap source--a little less than $1 per 200 mg tablet compared to around $600 give or take, for 30 tabs at pharmacies.
Below are some studies and possible solutions to depression remission.
The Gavis brand of Nardil is regarded by many as being the closest to the old formula regarding ingredients/absorption but in no way resembles efficacy of Park Davis version.
Palmitoylethanolamide (PEA) caused a reduction of food intake, body weight, and fat mass.
AUGMENTING NARDIL STRATEGY: Response to Phenelzine WITH Diazepam:
Results of a Nine Hospital Collaborative Study Allen Raskin, PhD; Joy G. Schulterbrandt,
-A total of 325 depressed patients from nine hospitals were randomly assigned to treatment with either diazepam, phenelzine, or a placebo. Dosages were 30 mg of diazepam and 45 mg of phenelzine.
The findings were that there was a significant number of anxious-depressive patients who were diazepam responders--their symptoms subsided on this treatment and became worse when this drug was discontinued.
1. ***It is possible that the current version OF NARDIL is not surviving the stomach acid content." Use antacid? enteric capsules and wax?
2." Nicotine boosts my dopamine back to normal, and it releases another chemical called acetylcholine (too much acetylcholine however, can cause depressive/anxiety symtoms) which helps thinking/processing. I quit smoking and now I constantly have to drink caffeine, or take l-tyrosine to keep my dopamine normal.
3. "New NARDIL metabolizes so fast it may be helpful to space dosage to three times daily
4. The new nardil seems to have lost a lot of its anxiolotic properties/social phobia. *Neurontin will help because it helps the new nardil boost its gaba level properties.
5. **Bioperine "I have been taking bioperine with nardil for six weeks now and can tell a big difference. The anxiety and depression are gone."
6. -olanzapine--"PARNATE just stopped working altogether even when I then increased it back up to 40mg per day. However, after a couple of weeks on olanzapine, it started working again! A total miracle !"
-acetylcholine--too much can cause depressive/anxiety symptoms.
-**coat nardil with carnuba or beeswax wax similar to the coating used in the Park Davis formula. (SEE BELOW)
Test describing enteric and wax coating of nardil tablets:
A new article described testing tablets enteric coated tablets (COMPRISING OF A LAYER OF A CELLULOSE DERIVATIVE CONTAINING FREE CARBOXYL GROUPS AND A LAYER OF beeswax or other suitable wax LIKE CARNUBA WAX.) SAID WAX LAYER's INTEGRITY WILL BE MAINTAINED IN THE STOMACH AND WILL BE UTILIZED IN THE INTESTINE. According to this test, it resulted in no penetration by fluids of the stomach for a period of ten" hours and disintegration in about one hour in the intestine. This test gives creedence to the use of an enteric coating which is insoluble and not dispersible in and impermeable by the fluids of the stomach, and non-rupturable by agitation in the stomach. At the same time, it is readily absorbed/dissipated by the fluids of the intestines.
Potential Root Cause of Depression Discovered by NARSAD Grantee:
Charles BG Murphy Professor in Psychiatry and Deputy Chair for Basic Science
Yale School of Medicine Scientific Council Member (Joined 2015) 2016 Distinguished Investigator Grant 2004 Independent Investigator Grant 1996 Young Investigator Grant
A Yale study has made a discovery pointing to the importance of a signaling system in the brain that was not previously believed to be central in causing depression.
For decades, many scientists have favored a theory of depression that stresses the impact of abnormally low levels of a signal-carrying chemical, called serotonin. The new research shifts attention to a different signaling chemical, or neurotransmitter, called acetylcholine.

Millions of depressed people take anti-depressant drugs that act to keep message-carrying serotonin molecules from being rapidly reabsorbed by nerve cells. By allowing serotonin to float for longer periods of time in the tiny spaces between nerve cells, called synapses, scientists have theorized the SSRI drugs promote signaling by compensating for abnormally low serotonin levels.

**Yale's new research, focuses on fluctuations in levels of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine and the larger chemical signaling system it is part of, called the cholinergic system.
Serotonin may be treating the problem,, but acetylcholine disruption may be a primary cause of depression. If we can treat the root cause, perhaps we can get a better response from the patient.

The experiments demonstrate that abnormally high levels of acetylcholine in the brain can cause depression and anxiety symptoms. In the brains of non-depressed peoplean enzyme called acetyl-cholinesterase (AChE) is produced to lower acetylcholine levels. The team showed that when depressed people were given Prozac®, AChE levels were raised, and abnormally high levels of acetylcholine were thus brought under control adding a new dimension to understanding how and why SSRI anti-depressants can alleviate depression.

Yet many depressed people do not get a therapeutic benefit from many medications. The new research suggests this may be because the root problem is not low levels of serotonin, but rather, high levels of acetylcholine. By experimentally blocking the ports, called receptors, where acetylcholine molecules dock with nerve cells in the brain, the team was able to reverse depression.
In still other experiments, the Yale team showed how interruptions in acetylcholine signaling in the brain area called the hippocampusimportant in memory and moodpromotes depression and anxiety.

With this new hypothesis that it is the disruption of acetylcholine, and not serotonin, that sets depression in motion, further research studies can be undertaken to determine if medications that target acetylcholine rather than serotonin, are more effective in treating depression.
-**enteric empty capsules to encase nardil-currently doing this
-NARDIL with aripiprazole may be considered with a cautious approach
-Bupropion/MAO Inhibitors-Some patients have experienced good results combining wellbutrin with nardil.Make sure your dr. knows you are taking these medicines together.
-an atypical antipsychotic medication (SEE BELOW), and N-Acetylcysteine
-Atypical antipsychotics studied include aripiprazole, risperidone, quetiapine, olanzapine and aripiprazole. Two meta-analyses have confirmed the efficacy of this strategy. Conclusion was that that these anti-psychotics were effective as augmentation agents.
-lithium--The evidence for lithium augmentation of antidepressants is a viable option.
-compound nardil?? too expensive?
-USE A dopamine reuptake inhibitor:
-Altropane (O-587): powerful reuptake inhibitor of dopamine-has long-acting effects.
-Difluoropine (O-620): some think may be illegal cuz similar to cocaine.
-Vanoxerine (GBR-12909): Considered extremely potent/selective. Inhibits -release of dopamine leading to a mild rise in dopamine, with subtle stimulant effect.
--Focalin is questionably the best dopamine reuptake inhibitor.
-Gastric emptying: Involves taking Nardil on an empty stomach with large quantities of water. It may (in theory) empty into the intestines immediately, (assuming the stomach doesnt recognize the Nardil), and absorb it just as quickly. This theory has not been known to be tested, therefore results are questionable.
If you still want to be on the Nardil, it would be best to combine the Nardil with a psychostimulant like Methylphenidate, because if you combine it with Nortriptyline then you may just cause too much Serotonin to be in the system. Typically for treatment resistant depression it would be best to add a psychostimulant as those are considered very effective. Adderall? ritalin? Focalin is the best?
A review in Pharmacotherapy evaluated data from 18 published studies and case reports on the safety/efficacy of combination therapy with MAOIs and other antidepressants or stimulants for TRD. Results FOLLOW:
Small studies and case studies have led to mixed findings on MAOIs plus TCAs. While some have demonstrated safety, this combination is usually less well-tolerated than either agent alone. There is evidence that the combination is no more effective than either agent alone. However, in the case studies culled from the patient medical records in this review, sustained tolerability and efficacy was observed with an MAOI + TCA. The exception to this is clomipramine, which should not be used concomitantly with an MAOI.
-MAOI + Stimulants
Although stimulants are not indicated for treatment of depression, they are used as an augmentation strategy and are supported by evidence in the literature as to their safety with MAOIs. Stimulants could help to normalize blood pressure in patients experiencing hypotension due to MAOI.
-MAOI + Antidepressants + Stimulants
This combination has demonstrated efficacy in case reports, although the case studies from the hospital showed mixed results. While the literature supports cautious use of combining MAOIs with other antidepressants in patients with TRD who have failed multiple treatment modalities.




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