Posted by desolationrower on September 30, 2009, at 0:35:22
In reply to Re: NAC - for akathisia - expansion (long), posted by g_g_g_unit on September 26, 2009, at 4:13:19
hm, i went and looked for anything new. i would say its unclear. i haven't seen much in the way of new research.
using mouse size[1] data, and the pulmonary heart thing study [2] i estimate 60mg NAC/mouse/day. a 75kg human is 2500x as big, so a daily dose of 150g. mouse metabolism adjustment factor (based on lore) of 6x is 25g/day. which is about 10x as much as a high dose.
but this study indicates some markers of hypoxia occuring at more reasonable doses [3] although they see it as normalizing things which are going out of line. maybe getting some free-radical generating excercise is important here or something. and normalizing might be also what is going on for someone using it who has symptoms like ocd/schizophrenia/whatever.
ace inhibitors (otc options include pomegranite juice and to a lesser extent tea) stop hypoxia-induced pul.h[4] egcg (green tea) also seems so direclty inhibit the HIFalpha that is downstream of the NO mediated NAC effect and on balance i think it would reduce the risk. [7][8] dhea also prevents remodeling, maybe.
NAC has mixed effects on overal cardiac function, see review:[5] maybe something to do with glutathione levels
but this 'replaces the effect of chronic intermittent hypoxia: "CIH decreased the reduced-to-oxidized glutathione ratio and increased the relative amount of PKC isoform- in the particulate fraction; NAC prevented these effects. The expression of PKC- was decreased by CIH and not affected by NAC"[6] i'm not sure whre it fits in.
mortality data shows no change in anything i could find either.
maybe taking an NSAID would mimick the enos negative rats that didn't have the PH response to NAC [9] However, NSAIds block pgi2 creation(from w-6), and pgi3(from w-3).
[1]mouse info: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1397713
[2] S-Nitrosothiols signal hypoxia-mimetic vascular pathology
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=17786245[3]http://bloodjournal.hematologylibrary.org/cgi/content/full/99/5/1552
[4] http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/157/5/1423
[5] http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1884975
[7] http://mct.aacrjournals.org/content/5/5/1227.abstract
[8] http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0891584907007290
[9]http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/326/3/745#FIG2
also of interest: http://0-ajpheart.physiology.org.library.pcc.edu/cgi/content/full/294/2/H570
original articles for reference:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1952645
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1952618-d/r
poster:desolationrower
thread:917764
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20090921/msgs/919096.html