Posted by bleauberry on September 21, 2009, at 16:11:41
In reply to Zoloft/Klonopin Withdrawal, posted by dvskitten on September 21, 2009, at 9:41:20
St Johns Wort may well be worth considering.
After a few days or a couple weeks of feeling maybe revved up a bit more than usual, it is generally calming except at higher doses where it has more of a dopamine effect. Sleep quality and overall peace are the two things most people report good results with.
Your receptors are frieking out without all the inhibitory action of serotonin and gaba going on. These things can take several months to readjust, for a number of us.
I am sensitive. When I stopped Zoloft after just 8 weeks on it, I had really difficult withdrawals lasting almost two months, which were very similar to yours except with a very high anxiety component as well. Scary times. But I made it. I ocassionally used Passion Flower and/or Lemon Balm and/or Valerian for the worst of times.
I tried 5htp a couple weeks after zoloft, and though I did sleep real good, I think my serotonin receptors were just so darn sensitive it was waves of exhaustion or panic. My Ingegrative MD says the correct way to take 5htp is to take miniscule doses frequently throughout the day (1mg-5mg), which I didn't know at the time.
Some notes on SJW:
-Some people do best with cheap brands.
-Some do best with clinical brands. (Kira, Perika)
-Kira is usually more calming, Perika usually more stimulating.
-Many have done well with Spring Valley from WalMart.
-Start with real low doses, like 75mg twice a day for a few days before increasing it.
-While the target dose is 900mg per day, many people find 300mg -600mg to be just fine.
-The time to dose takes experimentation. Some people get a boost of energy after a dose, so take it in the morning. Others get a little tired, so take it before bed.To get more familiar with it, check out the forums, archives, and info on sjwinfo.org.
I mention all this because after my Zoloft withdrawal, SJW was the thing that brought me back to peace within a few days. For some people it is a fantastic antidepressant, as one recent poster who has been on every SSRI/SNRI discovered. For me it is a mild antidepressant but an excellent overall peace inducing herb with great sleep. That is, after a few days of adjustment. And thus the low starting doses so as not to rock the boat.
I might also suggest Siberian Ginseng by Nature's Way. It is 250mg extract and 250mg whole herb in the same capsule. Do not take the other forms of Ginseng. Siberian in particular will help most all of your symptoms, including depression, but takes time. Overdo it at first and it will be stimulating/agitating. I am real prone to that so instead of taking the recommended target dose of 2 capsules 3 times per day, I am taking 1/2 capsule twice per day. I am real sensitive and handle that fine so far. Benefits accrue over weeks, becoming obvious at 2 months, and solidly in place at 6 months. It is an overall body-wide, hormone-wide, immune-wide, and nervous system-wide improver. Slow but worth it. Think of it as a vitamin you take everyday.
Given your history, I don't blame you for looking for other options. Believe me, there are plenty. I had to fail ECT before I got to that point. SJW and Siberian ginseng are just two. For a real serious depression, one would want Rhodiola Rosea but only the Mind, Body, Spirit brand, none others. At the SJW forum you'll see how a number of people do very well with 5htp and/or tyrosine, but that it is their tricky way of dosing that makes them work.
And along your journey through the natural strategies of defeating depression you will likely discover biological causes of depression to fix with herbs or supplements.
Critics of natural medicines say it is all experimental. To that I say, so is everything the doctor prescribes on a pad. All treatments are experimental, espcially in mental illness. Even in the best of studies, medicines did only marginally better than a sugar pill, with just enough miracles to seduce people. Not to mention the whole political thing going on between your doctor and the pharm companies and their med journals and flawed or deceptive clinical trials. That's a whole book in itself.
There are more scientific studies on popular herbs than most medicines. The German Commission E is like an FDA of herbs. Yeah, a country actually prescribes SJW 6 times more often than Prozac. SJW is a prescription there. Pbabble is not the only forum. If one were to visit other forums on a variety of topics such as Lyme, SJW, chelation, adrenal, whatever, one would see miracles happen everyday with plants when people were at the end of the road with medicines.
Zoloft is powerful stuff. All psych meds are. I find it not surprising you had an easier time getting of Klonopin than Zoloft, which of course is contrary to what most people might believe. No one has any idea what those drugs do to our brains short term or long term, other than their crude mechanism of blocking reuptake sites. What about all the stuff that happens as a result of that? No one knows. To me, that is experimental of the highest magnitude on millions of completely trusting people.
I am not anti-med at all. Don't mean to sound like it. They helped me through a few years no doubt. Longterm however, I have strong objections to most of them. The two I do not have objections to are Parnate and Nardil. The MAOIs are much closer to a natural biological function. Reuptake inhibition is just bizarre and was discovered by accident. Actually, the MAOIs were discovered by accident too. But some people's genes just automatically have a lot or a little MAO genetic activity, so that is a natural function to begin with that can be turned up or down. Reuptake inhibition on the other hand is not a natural function. So while not antimed, I am med-cautious, and I cheer the person willing to explore what God put on this planet for healing. We becoming easily seduced into thinking psych meds is all there is. They aren't.
One person's 2 month long suicidal depression was ended in 20 minutes with a first dose of 5htp and they were out shopping in the mall later that same day. It happens. Another person having been on every AD is feeling better than ever in 4 days on SJW. It happens. Another didn't do well with drugs, 5htp, or SJW, but found a miracle in Rhodiola. It happens.
Here is a weird one from a Lyme doctor who claims this is the best treatment for depression he has seen in 20 years of treating it. I have to go research it because I don't even know what it is. He says everyone is reluctant and skeptical because it sounds so ridiculous. But it does have actual biological mechanims. It is called Swedish massage?
Well, you get the point. Meds are not the only answer. For those who choose that route, they may do well. They may not. It's all kind of trial and error experiments. I applaud your wisdom in carefully engineering your weaning schedule and your strength in enduring the withdrawals. Just know, you have good options ahead of you and you could start them anytime.
poster:bleauberry
thread:917927
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20090921/msgs/917961.html