Posted by Questionmark on January 30, 2004, at 14:34:41
In reply to Re: galantamine » Questionmark, posted by Chairman_MAO on January 29, 2004, at 22:03:00
Hey, thanks so much for the info. That's amazing-- some of that stuff about how galantamine is so good at reversing the cognitive impairment and sedation of benzos and what not. That last abstract isn't too surprising, since any cholinergic is good at reversing anticholinergic syndrome in sufficient doses. But even that's cool in supporting how it works and stuff. And the fact that it's nicotinic is great too (just hope it's not TOO much so-- don't wanna have an addiction to galantamine like a pack-a-day smoker). Man i would LOVE to get my hands on this though-- esp. with Nardil.
And i appreciate what you said about talking to my doc first. But i am so sick of talking to him/them about .. well, anything, but especially about taking anything with Nardil (in fact i asked him if i could try a cholinergic recently, and he said he wasn't comfortable enough). i understand you have to be careful, but come on, people add things to MAOIs carefully and are fine. So if i can get this myself (which is almost surely the only way i could get it), i'm just gonna try it on my own-- but starting out with very low doses (as you basically suggested). i mean i wouldn't likely do such a thing with a serotonergic or adrenergic, but .. yeah. Oh and yeah, i have a good pill cutter and i've become quite adept at using it :?) . Thanks again.
> Before adding ANYTHING to an MAOI, I'd consult a knowledgeable pharmacist, psychopharmacologist, or psychiatrist. I doubt galantamine would cause any harm, but it's always good to check. If you cannot afford galantamine, order it from Sopharma AD, Bulgaria @ www.nivalin.com. It's affordable, especially considering you can use a pill cutter to cut the 10mg tabs into 5mg or 2.5mg (takes dexterity!) pieces. If you use it, start at 2.5mg once a day, going to 2.5mg bid and up from there--SLOWLY. Going overboard with acetylcholine could wreck the antidepressant effect of the Nardil.
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> I never even thought about galantamine with Nardil, but it seems like it could be quite a winning combination: galantamine is indirectly cholinergic, and I'm 99% sure it would mitigate just about any anticholinergic side effect you might have. It also is an extremely potent cognitive enhancer: if you go to the US patent database, look up "benzodiazepine AND galantamine". You will find US patents ripped off from Eastern Bloc research projects involving the treatment of various mental illnesses, including schizophrenia, with _HIGH_ doses of benzodiazepines (15mg of clonazepam) + galantamine. The galantamine PREVENTED SEDATION from _15mg_ of Klonopin in one case! I verified this when I was taking Klonopin. As such, I suspect it could mitigate your Nardil side effects. Check this out (btw, Ketalar is ketamine, which, along with 10mg of diazepam, causes FAR more cognitive impairment than you'll ever get from nardil):
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> Akush Ginekol (Sofiia). 1987;26(3):28-31.
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> [Attempt to eliminate residual somnolence and disorientation with nivaline after anesthesia with ketalar and diazepam for minor obstetrical and gynecologic surgery]
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> [Article in Bulgarian]
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> Chakalova E, Marinova M, Srebreva M, Anastasov D, Ploskov K.
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> PIP: Effectiveness of the anticholinergic agent nivaline to prevent side-effects of anesthetics ketalar and diazepam was studied in 40 pregnant women (15- 40 years old) undergoing induced abortion during the 1st trimester. The patients were divided into two groups. Group 1 included 20 patients who received anesthesia with diazepam (10 mg) and ketalar (50-70 mg) alone. Group 2 included 20 patients undergoing anesthesia under diazepam-ketalar in combination with nivaline (10 mg, iv) during an early postoperative period. The degree of somnolence and disorientation was assessed immediately after anesthesia, and 5, 10, 15, 30 and 60 min after surgery using a scale of 1 to 4 (from response to verbal commands and pain stimulus to complete absence of response). The patients in group 2 were more alert than the patients in group 1 only 5, 10 and 15 min after surgery.
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> JAMA. 1977 Nov 21;238(21):2293-4.
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> Reversal of central anticholinergic syndrome by galanthamine.
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> Baraka A, Harik S.
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> Ten volunteers were given 2 mg scopolamine intravenously (IV) to produce substantial drowsiness and sleepiness. Galanthamine, 0.5 mg/kg IV, effectively reversed the central anticholinergic syndrome produced by scopolamine. Electroencephalographic monitoring of two subjects matched the observed changes of consciousness: scopolamine replaced the dominant awake alpha rhythm with a disorganized, slow, 4- to 6-Hz activity. Galanthamine promptly returned to EEG pattern to the control, awake state. Galanthamine produces effective, safe, and long-lasting reversal of the central anticholinergic syndrome in man.
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poster:Questionmark
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URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040127/msgs/307363.html